I Wish That For Just One Time You Could Stand Inside My Shoes
You'd know what a drag it is to see you.
In reading a lot of the reactions from men about the whole Schwarzenegger thing, I've been surprised. Some have outright condemned him. Others, ones I wouldn't expect it of, have more or less glossed over the thing as "no big deal." I just read a description of the reports by Jay of The Daily Rant as "...the tracking down of the alleged "victims" of his manliness weren't bad enough". Which really just floored me, because I would never have thought before that Jay would brush reports like these off in that way.
I wish that men magically became women for one week and had to put up with the shit that we put up with on a regular basis. Then maybe some wouldn't so offhandedly dismiss the reports. Maybe they'd realize that it is demeaning and humiliating to have some guy grope you without your consent, and that it's not a sign of manliness. Maybe they'd realize that women actually can tell the difference between a man who is just saying he finds her attractive and one who is trying to intimidate her. One big clue, guys - Men who are just saying they find you attractive don't call you a "whore" or "bitch" when you don't respond.
Case in point - One day I was walking down the street when a guy gives me two thumbs up and yells out "Hey, baby, love the outfit!" And I gave him a big smile. Why? Because I knew he wasn't trying to intimidate me, but was, in fact, just saying he found me attractive. That was nice.
Let's compare and contrast that situation to another time I was walking down the street and a guy came up to me. This guy, however, said to me "How much?" WTF? I dress pretty conservatively. I don't wear low-cut tops. I don't wear micro-minis. I don't even wear skirts without wearing pantyhose or tights. So what would prepossess anyone to think I was a hooker? Sorry, I don't put that one in the category of "just saying he finds me attractive."
Or the time that a guy yelled out to me as I was passing "Hey, baby, what do you like for breakfast?" I just ignored him and kept walking, as pretty much any woman would have, and he followed it up with the completely cognitively dissonant "Whore!" And where does that come from? I mean, really, if I were a whore I'd have gone up to him and given him my price, not ignored him. The "logic" astounds.
By the way "what do you like for breakfast" is a completely unoriginal line and not one likely to get a woman to fall into your waiting arms. I've lost count of the number of times that one's been yelled out at me on the street. I'm unaware of any time it's been successful with any woman. Another reason I doubt it's actually meant as a pick-up line. Eventually people switch pick-up lines when they aren't successful.
Then there are the times I've been "jostled"* on crowded trains. The first time I was only 17, and I felt so humiliated. I couldn't move away from the guy, because the train was so packed. Finally we got off the train. I was on an exchange trip to France when it happened and never told any of the students or the teacher who were with me. I was so embarrassed and thought they might think less of me. As if I had done something wrong.
The second time I was in my 20s. I simply moved away. The third time was just a few years back. I tried moving away at first, but the bastard followed me and continued. At that point, I hauled off and rammed my elbow really hard into his abdomen. He stopped. Believe me, if it ever happens again, I'm not waiting. The bastard's going down. If I'm wearing heels, I'll ram one into his instep. If I can't do that, I'll use the elbow in the abdomen trick again. Whatever. But next time, I'm not moving away.
Sadly, none of these are uncommon or infrequent experiences for women. Shit like this happens all the time. I understand that sometimes men do things that they mean well, like putting their arms around an upset woman, and the woman misinterprets it to be harassing. That is unfortunate. But there is a real qualitative difference between putting your arms around an upset woman and reaching under her shirt and bra to grab her breast without her consent. Just because the first incident has been misinterpreted by some women doesn't mean the second one has. It's kind of hard to mean well when you're doing the second. And if you recognize the second as being harassing and abusive, that doesn't mean that somehow you become harassers or abusers for having done the first. It also doesn't mean that if you grab a woman's breasts with her consent, that you are a harasser or abuser.
I also understand that men go through things that women don't understand. But this post isn't about that. If one of you guys wants to write about those things, go right ahead. Needless to say, I'm not in a position to do that. So spare me that as an excuse, please.
*For those who don't know what "jostling" is (and that is one hell of a benign term for it), it is when a woman is standing with her back to a man. He has his pelvis (and his erection) pushed into her buttocks and is pumping it back and forth. It is not an infrequent occurrence on crowded trains.
Comments
I can't see why this is so difficult for - ahem - manly men to understand.
Just attribute to the "chicks" some small fraction of the violent hysteria you feel when you think some man wants to do it to you.
If you can only project gay men as ruthless, irresponsible predators, you should ask yourself what picture of the role of men in the sexual arena is.
Posted by: julia | October 4, 2003 10:47 PM
Nicely written, Lesley. I don't think I've ever had to deal with "jostling" but I've certainly had similar demeaning shout-outs (many having to do with weight and almost always followed by the "whore" or "slut" thing). I also think the "it's no big deal" reaction is indicative of marginalizing women's experiences in general.
Posted by: Elayne Riggs | October 4, 2003 11:20 PM
Actually a good way to get guys to "get it" is have them spend a few nights in a jammed and rowdy gay bar. We used to pay at this place in Indiana of all places that was a punk club upstairs and a gay disco downstairs. Because of the weird local laws the punk club, which had the live entertainment had to close at 1:00 and the disco could stay open until 2. Now the singer in our band was gay so he was all up for the disco scene. I was always more of a philosopher so I went down there after the shows each night. The guitar player tolerated the singer but was not into the idea of hanging out in the disco; he was also a bit of a horn dog where women were concerned. Well I drove the car, so one night he was stuck there with me.
We were drinking in a corner booth and there were a bunch of friendly guys willing to hang with us and buy us drinks. Neither of us hide the fact that we were straight, anyway the guitar player was getting upset that one of the guys was hitting on him. He was getting upset and told me we had to leave. I asked him why, “Because that guy who was sitting next to me was hitting on me and trying to get close, I told him I was straight.” He said.
I told him, “Well isn’t that what you do to women?” He didn’t understand what I was talking about. I said, “I have seen you come on to women, get all touchy -feely with them and even after they tell you to get lost you keep on them.”
“Yeah, so…” he was still not getting it.
“So now you know how those girls feel.”
I still don’t think he understood what I was trying to get across, but women have to put up with that every day. He had to put up with it from one guy. And frankly he was not a pretty man so he should have been flattered
Posted by: Rick DeMent | October 5, 2003 07:43 PM
Amen.
Posted by: Jane Finch | October 6, 2003 11:58 AM
I don't ride mass transit (unless you call an SUV mass transit) so I have only seen jostling the clubs, where it appears to be invited nearly as often as as it is harrassing. It amazes me that some men think they can act like lecherous scum and believe that will convince a woman to entertain thoughts of any interaction. Then the guy is pissed at the "whore" for not accepting hostile advances.
Lesley, take the name calling as a badges of courage and honor. (I'm sure you know this, I have a daughter nearing the age where boys will be expressing interest in a variety of ways so consider this a trial run for advice I will be giving her - any advice?)
I swear I am changing my name legally to Dick Buster. I knew a guy with that name; his daughters, about my age, are fine young women. He was a BIG mountain of a man, I would hazard a guess he could live up to his name if need be. Never heard of a guy giving him a reason though.
Oh, I have used "what do you like for breakfast" once, and it did work, though it wasn't the initial introduction, it was after a night of dancing and walking around looking at the stars etc.
Posted by: Justin | October 7, 2003 06:25 PM
My best advice is to ignore the name calling. Just walk on by and understand that it's them, not her. Don't make eye contact.
Unless she's a genius at martial arts, in which case, tell them to go to hell and then kick their ass if they get all confrontational. And never tell them to "fuck off." It's an opening wide enough for a tank.
Posted by: Lesley | October 7, 2003 07:27 PM
I was unhappily surprised at the men that didn't get it in regards to Swarzenegger. I've had experiences like yours, Lesley. I wonder what it would be like to walk freely on the street without getting hassled.
Posted by: Lanya | October 7, 2003 08:52 PM
I agree with you that men don't always get it and that its really different being a woman. I've gotten into fistfights with men after being touched or grabbed.
Still, none of these women came forward in any court of law until Arnold was running for governor. At least with the Clinton situation, Paula Jones have a legal case. I find it weird that all these women came forward at the last minute and though I'm not Arnold fan, I think he has been set up.
Posted by: Kashei | October 8, 2003 01:21 AM
Looks like a number of women didn't get it either. Poll results I saw indicate the serial groper still garnered 43% support from women. (49% from men) 48% from white women.
What's that say about the other bums? Davis reportedly has a problem with abusive action and the staffers he lorded over.(sometimes violent - he throws stuff and yells a lot)
Posted by: Justin | October 8, 2003 02:29 PM
All I want to say is “Hey, baby, love the outfit!”
Posted by: Just John | October 9, 2003 07:39 PM
Big smile!
Posted by: Lesley | October 9, 2003 09:22 PM